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Quote: from Bacon at 6:21 am on July 26, 2008

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FurryPanther you're just talking bullshit.

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It's what I've heard. It's fucking stupid, and I don't think it'll work, but that's what I've heard. And this sis also the Canadian version. We aren't as fantastic as planning this stuff as Americans...

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1. iPods were designed to be used in conjunction with CDs. iTunes allows CD ripping and sequentially for loading onto the iPod device. It is not illegal, n will it ever be.

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I know that. But that would be something Apple would support, I think, because it would mean only iTunes Store songs are legal, along with other online stores. That would be great for business, don't you think?

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2. Older CDs did not come with digitally-signed audio files. So a law that requires digitally-signed audio files only on an iPod or other MP3 device is both unlikely and ridiculously stupid. It would take massive amounts of time and money to create a database of every CD - from the oldest and the newest - and find out which ones had digital signatures and THEN cross-reference it with the contents of the MP3 player.

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Again, I get you. It would be impossible to do each person, so if they suspect it, they take away the hardware, send it off, and get it processed at a central facility. You lose your computer whether they find anything or not. It's stupid, it sucks, and it's not fair, but Customs has done worse to people.

There is a reason companies are having executives travel with skeleton laptops now...

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3. Open source music, free public works.. Hell, even songs people create themselves normally don't contain digital signatures on the file. Are you saying these songs are automatically illegal?

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I'm pretty sure those would be exceptions.

FP

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Where are you getting your "information" from? Where are you hearing this?

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Genetics is fate. Change our genes, achieve free will.

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Where are you getting your "information" from? Where are you hearing this?

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I'll try to find the article again. I can't now, because I'm going to meet my grandparents for the afternoon, but next chance I get.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

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http://techdirt.com/articles/20071231/124515.shtml

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i actually take that back... because the riaa is shitfucking confusing so they'll get you anyway

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/riaa-believes-m.html

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last.fm
I'm the biggest boss that you seen thus far.

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Quote: from charolastra at 9:13 am on July 26, 2008

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http://techdirt.com/articles/20071231/124515.shtml

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i actually take that back... because the riaa is shitfucking confusing so they'll get you anyway

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/01/riaa-believes-m.html

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OK, here's the thing.  The RIAA will say that they believe ripping CD's is a crime, because it's a lot more convenient for them.  But that doesn't mean it is a crime.  They have incentive to lie about it, and they do.  End of story.

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http://www.golivewire.com/forums/peer-yatapys-support-a.html

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Quote: from obvious child at 8:10 pm on July 25, 2008

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This doesn't even make sense Panther. How are they going to check the signatures on every type of Mp3 player and laptop much less phone?  

 Not going to happen. It would cost BILLIONS to merely equip airports with the necessary adapters to check every time to cell phone and mp3 player.  

 Furthermore, if I legally buy a song off Itunes, burn it to a CD and then rip it, I have stolen nothing.

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They take it. Simple as that.

FP

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Huh? That doesn't make sense. How can they detect if you have non-signed files on a device they cannot access?

Furthermore, it is illegal to seize property like that.

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Winner of the Monthly Comic Award Goes To:

TheLastMagister!!! Congrads!

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Quote: from FurryPanther at 4:11 pm on July 25, 2008

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Quote: from obvious child at 8:10 pm on July 25, 2008

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This doesn't even make sense Panther. How are they going to check the signatures on every type of Mp3 player and laptop much less phone?  

Not going to happen. It would cost BILLIONS to merely equip airports with the necessary adapters to check every time to cell phone and mp3 player.  

Furthermore, if I legally buy a song off Itunes, burn it to a CD and then rip it, I have stolen nothing.

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They take it. Simple as that.

FP

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Huh? That doesn't make sense. How can they detect if you have non-signed files on a device they cannot access?  

Furthermore, it is illegal to seize property like that.

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"customs has complete control over you, you have no rights in international travel"
-furrypanther

Post edited at 3:24 pm on July 26, 2008 by charolastra

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last.fm
I'm the biggest boss that you seen thus far.

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"customs has complete control over you, you have no rights in international travel"
-furrypanther

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Not quite. They have to first prove you have illegal songs and content on your device. There's no way they can do that for all types of devices. I have a mp3 player that has  most people have never heard of and has a special custom USB mini plug. The sheer cost of outfitting every international border station and airport to check each device would be outstanding. Couple that with cell phones and the costs grow exponentially. There's no reasonable way that they could run searches economically much less timely.

Furthermore, if you are citizen returning to your country through a customs run by your country, that is certainly not legal to simply take your property without first searching your device. In the US, the Fourth Amendment prohibits illegal seizures.

-------
Winner of the Monthly Comic Award Goes To:

TheLastMagister!!! Congrads!

I find that a very unpalatable idea.

Also, what about the DRM free music sold on iTunes, I have some of that, there is no digital signature in it as far as I know.

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Not quite. They have to first prove you have illegal songs and content on your device. There's no way they can do that for all types of devices. I have a mp3 player that has  most people have never heard of and has a special custom USB mini plug. The sheer cost of outfitting every international border station and airport to check each device would be outstanding. Couple that with cell phones and the costs grow exponentially. There's no reasonable way that they could run searches economically much less timely.  

Furthermore, if you are citizen returning to your country through a customs run by your country, that is certainly not legal to simply take your property without first searching your device. In the US, the Fourth Amendment prohibits illegal seizures.

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They sieze it under suspicion.

They have free reign. I have a friend that crossed from Canada to the States legally to go visit some family during the summer. There was no reason for suspicion besides his demographic. His car was seized, and he was held while they literally ripped his car apart. Cut open the seats, ripped up the floor, destroyed his property, and everything on a search for drugs. There was not reason for it, and not even the dogs suggested there was, but they did it anyways. He tried to take them to court, and could do nothing. Personal suspicion is reason enough for customs officers. He had his car written off from a drug search, pretty much because they felt like it. The suspicion doesn't even need to be reasonable.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.

If we apply that standard, customs officials can just take whatever they want under the guise of copyright protection.

-------
Winner of the Monthly Comic Award Goes To:

TheLastMagister!!! Congrads!

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How the fuck is that legal?  

If we apply that standard, customs officials can just take whatever they want under the guise of copyright protection.

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That's my point. they can do what they want. It's technically international territory too, right on the border, so they don't really answer to their government. Or at least it doesn't seem like they do.

FP

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I think we are in rats' alley
Where the dead men lost their bones.